Client Scripts Solution Proposal

[Kabraxis]

First and foremost, this thread is not a place for argument. As probably everyone has noticed there is a massive 10 page thread about client scripts here where it has been debated what to do about them, if anything. There are pretty big discrepencies between people who think using scripts to change how the game is played is wrong and people who think it's perfectly legit. My goal here is to work out a way so both sides win evenly, and while i am completely against scripting on the client side, i recognise that many Tribes players a passionate about scripting to change the game and i want to find a solution so that the whole ordeal is easier to handle for players, mod makers, and server hosts.

While i've talked about the idea i am about to propse quite a bit in the large Client Scripts thread, its scattered around and someone would have to do a whole lot of reading to find all of it an put it together. So i'm making this post to give a clear picture to the devs who will ultimately decide on it, jsut because i want them to understand it perfectly and completely.

It has been established that scripting can and is used to give the user advantages in the game, be most of them small but still present.

So, i'll get started on how my idea will work...

When someone wants to set up an Ascension server, one area will give them a choice of weather or not to allow freedom of script use from the client side.

If they decide to allow it, it's very simple, any script a client makes can be used on the server.

If they decide not to allow it, they are presented with some more options. They can have it so the server only plays Ascension or a mod of Ascension, as it came, basically just the game or mod without client scripts.

Or, say the server host wants certain script effects to be applied to players without giving the clients the freedom to use their own scripts. In the server files on the computer hosting it, there will be a scripts folder, and the server host can put scripts that have been written into that folder, and then they will be applied to all of the players there. This way, no one has an advantage because they have a script that other people dont have.

When, as a player, you are selecting a server to play on, there will be something on each server's line that indicates whether or not freedom of client scripting is there or not. Then maybe by right clicking on the server and being able to acces an info page to see who's in it and stuff, as many games do today, you can get details on which scripts are applied to servers, if any, that do not allow complete freedom of client scripting.

What are the benefits of this system? Where do i start?

Players who think scripting isn't fair will be able to play knowing they are i na fiar game, and that no one has an advantage with a script.

Server hosts can better provide the playing experience that they want to on their server. Say we were in Tribes 1, if the server had ski racing maps only, the server host could apply the skiing script.

Server host will not have to worry about people on their servers playing unfairly or using scripts to get around aspects of the mod on the server. And while, it is possible to write protection from most scripts into the mod, this system saves the host lots of time and trouble, and sets his mind at ease that he doesn't have to be constantly watching for people trying to exploit in his server.

Players who enjoy the use of scripts will be able to play just as they have always been able to with their customizations, the only difference is they will not be able to use them on servers where they are not wanted, which is a good thing.

Tribes has always been comfortable for the scripters but with this idea i'd like to also make it more comfortable for players who dont approve of scripts and for server hosts who have not been able to rest comfortably because there are always people out there writing things to change how they play on their server.

Its a win win situation for everyone, rather than just for the scripters. This way everyone can play in an environment they want and the server hosts can provide the environment they want better than ever.

As i said, i dont want this to become another 10 page argument so if you think i'm a bad person because of this idea then please tell me so in the Client Scripts thread. I just wrote this up here so the devs can see it cleanly and completely, because i feel very strongly about being able to have fair play in this new game. I do welcome input and suggestions to change the idea or tweak it or make it better, but if you are gonna just tell me its useless and i'm stupid, dont do it here. Thanks.

[PB*Tech]

Great idea Kab! You'll have to thank Ama for helping you bring your idea together.

Oh, and how about an option for the players on the server to vote for client scripting on or off.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by PB*Tech

Great idea Kab! You'll have to thank Ama for helping you bring your idea together.

Oh, and how about an option for the players on the server to vote for client scripting on or off.

Actually, that's still far from an ideal solution. Read the other thread to see why.

[Viracer]

Actually voting for scripting is a good idea too.

[Kabraxis]

Yeah, modders make voting for anything possible so i'm sure some server will have voting for client script use. And it's true i do owe some of the idea to Ama, i went into taht other argument thinking "no scripts whatsoever" but came out with a way to make everyone happy (exept Ama, apparently).

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by Kabraxis

Yeah, modders make voting for anything possible so i'm sure some server will have voting for client script use. And it's true i do owe some of the idea to Ama, i went into taht other argument thinking "no scripts whatsoever" but came out with a way to make everyone happy (exept Ama, apparently).

So instead of "no scripts whatsoever", you make "no scripts whatsoever or all the sripts in the world, including exploits". Chances are that in order to eliminate exploits, most servers will resort to zero scripting and we're back at square 1. Everyone is not happy.


Scripting as a whole isn't the problem, certain parts of it in certain mods are.

[Viracer]

I do welcome input and suggestions to change the idea or tweak it or make it better

As kab said

[Badazz]

server one: does not allow scripts
server two: allows scripts on the server side that can be downloaded by client
server three: allows all, call it a script paradise server for the scripters to play with what the devs have created.

[Bjra]

great idea i agree with this completely. compromise pwns

[Viracer]

I've never heard this before so i gotta quote it...

compromise pwns

[Kabraxis]

Thank you badazz. Adding onto server 3; the server host can still mod in defenses if that's how he would rather do it from the exploits. I'm trying to give the host more choices, not make the choice for them. Script using players have had all the choices in the world at the servers' expense forever, now its time to even the playing field so both sides can customize their side of the game just as easily.

So Ama, how about you quit thinking about whats best for just yourself (i've talked to people, i know you're quite the script user), and start thinking about what works for everyone.

And as i said i dont want argument taking off here so this becomes a pain in the ass to read. Keep it in the other thread, if you can get out of your hypocrisy over there.

[Kabraxis]

I was thinking about this today and realized that there was never an answer given by RenWerX folk. Does this sound like a plausible idea? Or what are you guys planning to do with the whole scripting scene?

[PyroGuNx]

Originally Posted by Kabraxis

So Ama, how about you quit thinking about whats best for just yourself (i've talked to people, i know you're quite the script user), and start thinking about what works for everyone.

And as i said i dont want argument taking off here so this becomes a pain in the ass to read. Keep it in the other thread, if you can get out of your hypocrisy over there.

You aught not to make personal attack based statements when asking for a lack of argument. Tera just said in irc, so i thought i'd post it here. We'll be looking into this as to be able to respond as best we can.

Edit: Now that I have a spare moment (though it is spare as im off to a meeting in a minute) to respond. I will say some quick thoughts on this statement:

Originally Posted by Kabraxis

Server host will not have to worry about people on their servers playing unfairly or using scripts to get around aspects of the mod on the server. And while, it is possible to write protection from most scripts into the mod, this system saves the host lots of time and trouble, and sets his mind at ease that he doesn't have to be constantly watching for people trying to exploit in his server.

This is also something that restricts players. Really, I feel it is the mod makers job (or game makers job) to make sure that cheats and exploits are as removed from their game as possible. This other method of leaving it up to the server admin basically gives mod makers an excuse to be lazy. "If you don't want exploits, then simply disable the usage of scripts or specify the users config." I don't know about you, but I don't want a different config with tweaked settings and so forth to overwrite or take the place of what i've already got set up.

I am skeptical given your system how many server hosts would choose the option to not allow scripts or to use the specificied scripts by the server as opposed to having it "open". I can see this mentality work in a single scenario of completitive, league play, where there is a single config that everyone has to use and can customize within those scripts bounds but otherwise cannot add to (and would be checked). I must be off.

[HardDrive]

when did the best aspects of tribes all become unfair

I see no reason that this is necessary. We're not playing counterstrike.

[KillerONE]

It certainly is a good suggestion.

I still don't see how people can put "client-side scripting" any where near the high priority some people make it out to be.

My biggest problem with scripting in general is people having an advantage over someone else, for no other reason than they found some "script" someone made, or they wrote it themselves. The average gamer just has to "take it" cause he wasn't l33t enough to search/download/find it.

My biggest problem with this suggested fix is another division of the player base. You have mods, competition and now script options that will slowly fracture a growing community. In-fighting, etc. Leaving new players no "common" or fun place to go.

My second biggest problem with the suggested fix is that scripts can be harmful to your computer. It'd be pretty easy for someone to write some malicious code to have run on unsuspecting gamers that think they're getting a cool client side script.

New games need a narrow, collective scope for the masses to join and partake in. As players demand changes, the large group can stay intact with niche communities that potentially can grow into something great (read: CS). But if you don't have the large pool to draw from, you'll just have a few little puddles that don't amount to much.